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Size Chart

Measurements are in inches and refer to body size, not garment measurements.

Size	00
Bust	32.5
Waist	25
Hip	35

Size	22
Bust	33.5
Waist	26
Hip	36

Size	44
Bust	34.5
Waist	27
Hip	37

Size	66
Bust	35.5
Waist	28
Hip	38

Size	88
Bust	36.5
Waist	29
Hip	39

Size	1010
Bust	37.5
Waist	30
Hip	40

Measurement Tips

Bust

Bring arms to your sides, place tape measure under your arms
and run it around the fullest part of the bustline.

Waist

Locate the natural crease of your waist by bending to one side. Loop the tape measure around
your natural waistline, keeping one finger between the tape and your body for an easy fit.

Hips

Place feet together, loop the tape measure around the fullest part of your hips,
approximately 7 inches below your waistline.

The rallier

Joy Holder

The Ralliers is a collection of interviews with female creators we admire. We look for women who make hard choices in exchange for self-defined lives. You'll leave these stories with wisdom, comfort and beauty too.

Describe yourself.

I’m the founder and director of Brooklyn Forest School and a community organizer in my neighborhood, Fort Greene.

How have you broken with traditions or norms created by other people in exchange for a self-defined life?

There was really no tradition of forest school in the U.S. when I started one ten years ago with my husband Charlie. And when we did, it certainly wasn’t considered normal. Back then, we would pull a red wagon filled with fresh bread, tea thermoses, and gardening tools through our neighborhood on our way to Prospect Park. Strangers would call out for a ride in the wagon; a few acquaintances would tease us.

Honestly, I sometimes felt silly. But I also felt certain that the work was worthwhile, not just wacky. So we kept going.

Honestly, I sometimes felt silly. But I also felt certain that the work was worthwhile, not just wacky. So we kept going. And with each passing season, Charlie and I felt more confident that forest school had found a foothold in this city, that families here share a belief in the value of nature and imaginative play in a child’s development.

It’s still not a normal job. And yet there are now so many new outdoor programs in the city and beyond started by the extended community of parents, teachers, and neighbors who have encountered our forest school -- it feels like a new tradition.

Tell us about your work.

Whether it’s through forest school or another community project, I’m always committed to helping people, especially children, connect with nature and connect to each other. That’s my work.

Forest school now has a life of its own, so my day-to-day work is really about stewardship -- tending to the community of teachers, children, parents, and caregivers who attend our classes. We’re a true mom-and-pop organization, so Charlie and I do the behind-the-scenes work ourselves. That of course includes a lot of emailing and record keeping, but there are also so many fun, idiosyncratic jobs to do as a forest school director. Like visiting the farmers market each week to buy thirty pounds of apples and then cooking them down into apple butter. Or preparing a meal to share with the teachers whenever we meet to learn new songs. Or building a tipi out of branches early in the morning when I deliver the bread to the park.

As you can see, food is a big part of my work. I’ve found in most of my community-building projects, the best work happens at simple gatherings where there’s good food to share.

What do you want us to know about nature?

Feeling a close connection to nature is possible even for people living in cities. It’s probably more important for us too.

My advice is to imagine your connection to nature as you would your relationship with a friend. Consider the things you do to maintain your friendship -- spending time together, checking in on one another’s well-being, celebrating life’s joys with each other.

As with any friendship, your relationship with nature will grow deeper the more time and thought you devote to it. You notice its mannerisms, like the way some trees tend to disperse their seeds all at once over the course of a windy weekend. You notice its beauty, like how the wings of a cicada turn to shimmering stained glass in the sunlight. Then you start to realize how all of that noticing is changing who you are for the better. We all deserve a friend like that.

What do you most want other women to know?

Nature is a good friend, and it’s also an incredible teacher. The lesson it’s always teaching me is that the living world is full of wonder and challenges that are way beyond my control. The seasons change, the storms roll through the city, the weeds never stop taking root in the little vegetable garden I tend in Fort Greene Park. It all reminds me to practice self-compassion and to find compassion for others, especially when doing so feels impossible.

What are you searching for?

I am an eternal student so there is a lot that I haven't quite figured out and I'm happy to have unanswered questions. One question that I ask myself often is; How can I most be of service to all sentient beings?

What brings you ease?

I love cooking and baking from scratch. It’s not easy per se, but it relaxes me. Maybe it’s because it’s the kind of work that involves your hands and head and, if you’re doing it right, your heart.

Lately, I’ve been making a lot of waffles -- it’s a way to cook in the summer without heating up the kitchen (and the rest of the apartment). My secret ingredient is cooked oatmeal, which replaces butter in the recipe and makes the dish a little more sustainable, nourishing and quick to pull together.

Tell us about your style of living.

I’m a minimalist, a style I started practicing accidentally. During the first four years we were married, Charlie and I moved eight times, including once across the country. Each time, we shed a layer of things -- clothes, books, furniture -- we decided we didn’t need. It gave us an almost spartan instinct. We’ve now lived in the same place for almost a decade but never re-accumulated.

Share a good read, watch, or listen.

I’ve been loving a hilarious television show called Rutherford Falls. The multiple Indigenous characters feel real to me and offer perspectives that I’ve never seen in popular media before.

Tell us about something you've just discovered.

Everything at Sahadi’s is delicious and special, particularly in their spice section. I’ve just discovered lemon salt and I’ve used it in so many recipes this summer: stirred into Greek yogurt for a tangy topping, sprinkled on roasted eggplant, mixed into peach crumble when I’m out of lemons.

Tell us about something you've created.

I’ve been writing a cookbook. It’s one of the reasons food is on my mind at the moment, but it’s also my favorite lens to recall experiences. It’s been fun testing my recipes and writing them down… and keeps me from obsessing about the news.

Joy is the founder and director of Brooklyn Forest School and a community organizer in her neighborhood, Fort Greene.

P.S. The pieces in our stories are always authentically picked. When purchased, we sometimes receive compensation in return. Thank you for supporting!